captioning funded by cbs and ford >> alfonsi: superstorm sandy killed 117 people and caused more than $60 billion worth of damage in 2012. and thousands of families that survived sandy say they've been hit by a second wave of fraud. >> i was like, how can you tell me that you can't even cover this, i'm not going to get the full amount of my insurance? i said, you got my payments every month. >> alfonsi: tonight an investigation into why so many families didn't get the help they deserved and what's being done about it. are you going to make it right? >> cooper: you want the company to remove all the flooring... >> every single board at their cost and replace it with clean flooring. >> cooper: for months "60

minutes" has been looking into lumber liquidator, america's largest and fastest-growing retailer of hardwood flooring after getting a tip that their chinese-made lamb nantes flooring contained unsafe levels of a cancer-causing chemical. >> it was so high, in fact, that one of our test labs thought their machine was broken. >> cooper: the lab itself? >> it hit the upper limit of the radar gun and they thought it was broken. >> rose: this is what everybody that is watching this wants to know. >> yeah. >> rose: who is larry david? >> this guy, he's... you are too much, mr. rose. >> rose: why? why? >> you're probing. >> rose: because we want to know who you are. i'm a jerk. that's who i am. let's stop talking about me. that's why i didn't want to do this interview in the first place. i didn't want to talk to "60 minutes." i didn't want to do it because i knew you would be asking questions like this. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm charlie rose.

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>> pelley: tonight sharyn alfonsi on assignment for "60 minutes." >> sharyn alfonsi: when hurricane sandy made its way towards the east coast in the fall of 2012, residents knew it could be devastating. what they didn't expect was just how bad sandy turned out to be-- 117 deaths and damage estimated at more than $60 billion, second only to katrina.

now, two-and-a-half years later, sandy victims have been hit by something else they didn't expect-- the storm after the storm. many of them say they have been cheated out of their insurance claims. thousands of claims have still not been resolved, and there is evidence that many homeowners were victims of what appears to be wide-scale fraud, where original damage reports were later changed to make it look like the damage wasn't as bad. making matters worse, appeals to the federal agency in charge of all of this, fema, went nowhere. hurricane sandy damaged or destroyed hundreds of thousands of homes and rearranged neighborhoods. long beach, new york, was one of them. this was bob kaible's house the next day. the yellow one, with a sand dune blocking his front door. >> kaible: the beaches decided that they didn't want to be there anymore and they came to pay a visit. and that's what happened. and we got back to the house and we were devastated.

>> alfonsi: what was that like to walk into your house for the first time? >> kaible: everything that you worked so hard in your life to get is now gone. >> alfonsi: but you had flood insurance. >> kaible: uh-huh. >> alfonsi: you'd pay for every month. >> kaible: absolutely. >> alfonsi: did you think you were okay? >> kaible: sure. i mean, that's what you pay insurance for. >> alfonsi: the city condemned kaible's home, saying it was damaged beyond repair. the house had been knocked off its foundation. his insurance company-- wright flood-- sent an engineer to inspect the damage. three weeks later, the kaibles couldn't have been more surprised. >> kaible: i get the engineering report that there's no structural damage to the house. so i'm going like, "what do you mean there's no structural damage? the house is not what it was before." so between my wife and myself we made about 30 to 40 phone calls to different people-- the adjuster, the engineering firm to our flood insurance carrier. >> alfonsi: what are you trying to get from them? >> kaible: just that this report is wrong. we'd like to get another

engineer back. >> alfonsi: the insurance company agreed to send someone back out to the house. surprisingly, it was the same engineer, george hernemar, who worked for a company called u.s. forensic. >> kaible: i said, "george, how could you write a report like that?" he goes, "it's not my report." i said, "what-what do you mean it's not your report?" he says, "wait here." he goes to the trunk of his car, goes, picks up the report and brings it into the house. he says, "this is the report i wrote." >> alfonsi: bob kaible got out his phone and took a picture of george's original report. it plainly said there was "structural damage" to the house. but this is the report the insurance company sent to kaible when they denied his claim. "not structurally damaged." they said the damage was "long term" meaning it existed before hurricane sandy. the kaibles' insurance company wright flood, the largest provider of flood insurance in the country, paid him just

$79,000 of his $250,000 policy. >> kaible: we had a mortgage on the house. i've had estimates of $300,000 to $350,000 to rebuild the house. what am i gonna do? >> alfonsi: bob kaible's house was torn down after he sold it for a loss, and he believes it was because of a falsified engineering report. the photo kaible took was solid proof for many other sandy victims who were struggling with similar situations. how many houses do you see that are empty? >> kaible: on this block? probably half of them. >> alfonsi: the kaibles pleaded to a vice president at their insurance company and passed on their evidence. but the company denied full payment, arguing subsequent reports supported them. with frustration as high as the water marks in their home, the kaibles filed a lawsuit. that suit drew the attention of a texas trial lawyer who had never been to long beach, but got on his plane in a hurry. steve mostyn has won billions

fighting insurance companies and when he heard about bob kaible's case, he says he had a gut feeling the kaible family wasn't alone. sure enough, he says, his houston office is now flooded with paperwork from victims of the superstorm. >> mostyn: there's been systematic fraud on the policy holders who've filed flood claims from sandy. >> alfonsi: what's the fraud? >> mostyn: the fraud is taking engineers' reports and changing them-- from saying there was structural damage to saying there's no structural damage, or giving the engineers a form to fill out that already has the conclusion of no structural damage. >> alfonsi: why would anyone do that? >> mostyn: save money. the biggest ticket item inside a claim, for a flood claim, is the structural damage. and so when they don't pay for structural damage, they save hundreds of thousands of dollars on each claim. >> alfonsi: of the thousands of cases lawyer steve mostyn says he's found, electrician john mero and his wife gail's is the most revealing. their house is in east rockaway, new york. what was this street like in the

days... the day after sandy? >> gail mero: six-foot-high water in the street. >> john mero: well, the day after, it was like armageddon. >> alfonsi: the meros' house had to be torn down after the storm. their insurance company paid them just $80,000. and now they're buried in debt after rebuiling their home. >> john mero: i was like, "how can you tell me that you're not gonna cover this, that i'm not gonna get the full amount of my insurance?" i says... "you got my payments every month." said "it's time for you to pay and here's what you're gonna tell me." >> alfonsi: it was two years later that the meros felt a second wave hit them, when the engineer who assessed their home after the storm called them out of the blue. >> john mero: the engineer sent his report in to the insurance company saying that the house was damaged due to flood. the structural damage is caused by the flood. and from what i understand, the insurance company changed it changed his words, without him knowing. >> alfonsi: this is andrew braum, the engineer who could no longer stay silent. >> braum: i wanted to call them from day one. i wanted to tell them that this

is not me, i didn't do this. >> alfonsi: braum told us not only were changes made to his engineering reports, but he was asked to cover it up. he showed us the original report he'd written about the damage to john and gail mero's house. >> braum: we assess in the conclusions hydrodynamic forces, hydrostatic forces, due to the flood, caused a cracking and shifting throughout the foundation. >> alfonsi: so you're saying the flood caused this damage? >> braum: correct. and then, in the revised or the altered report, it says, "settlement due to consolidation of soil caused the foundation wall to crack." that's not what i wrote; it's completely altered. >> alfonsi: braum inspected more than 180 homes after sandy working for a company called hi- rise engineering. after he discovered the changes made to the report he wrote about the meros' home, he went back to check all the copies of his original reports against the final copies that the homeowners received. how many of those reports were doctored?

>> braum: at least 175 of them or approximately 96%, is the number that i calculated. >> alfonsi: 175 of your reports were doctored? >> braum: correct. they were altered. >> alfonsi: and the ones that weren't changed? >> braum: the ones that weren't changed, interestingly, were ones where i recommended that no repairs are required. >> alfonsi: braum says hi-rise engineering pressured him to sign an affidavit saying he agreed with their final reports. he says he ignored the request and never did it. do you think they were trying to cover up something? >> braum: now knowing what i know, yes. >> alfonsi: what do you think was going on? >> braum: they figured out that they altered all those reports. and they wanted to hurry up and have... they called me braum "braum, get braum to sign off on this quick." so if braum wasn't thinking or if braum didn't care, he would just sign his name 200-something

times, and they were off the hook. and that wasn't happening with me. >> alfonsi: insurance companies have argued the reason the engineering reports were changed was to allow for a peer review process, a standard practice in the insurance industry. >> braum: peer review to me would be amongst my peers of an equal licensing or education level and review a report and discuss it. but not peer review when i send my final report and it's changed without my knowledge. that's not peer review. >> alfonsi: just days ago, the offices of hi-rise engineering were raided by the new york attorney general's office, which is conducting a criminal investigation into hi-rise as well as the insurance companies that hired them. hi-rise, wright flood, and u.s. forensic all declined our requests for an interview. they have denied allegations of criminal activity and all three say they are cooperating with the investigation.

more than 2,000 sandy victims have filed lawsuits in federal courts. >> mostyn: you know we thought originally it might be one engineer, right? and then we find multiple engineers inside the same company. and as we dug into it, it's other engineering companies. well, then you gotta start looking for a different common denominator. >> alfonsi: and in this case all of those companies are overseen by fema, the federal emergency management agency. more than five million homeowners living in designated flood zones all around the country are required to buy flood insurance policies backed by fema and taxpayer money. brad kieserman is the new head of fema's flood program. on the job for about three weeks, he's already had to answer to allegations of fraud and criminal activity at the expense of some of sandy's hardest-hit families. >> kieserman: i'm not gonna sit here and conceal the fact that it happened. because in the last three weeks, i've seen evidence of it. >> alfonsi: you say you've seen evidence of these fraudulent reports.

>> kieserman: yes. >> alfonsi: you've seen evidence of what could be criminal activity by using unlicensed engineers? >> kieserman: yes, which is why i referred it to the inspector general. >> alfonsi: when did fema learn that there may be a problem here, that fraudulent reports may be used to deny claims? >> kieserman: i think that there were signals. based on what i've seen, if you will, signals in late 2013 early 2014 that there were problems that our survivors were experiencing with engineering, with the claims process, with appeals. but those were signals. and i think those signals got louder, if you will... >> alfonsi: it was more than signals. this is... this is a letter to fema in the summer of 2013 that clearly says that the person conducting, doing the inspections here wasn't a licensed engineer. this is to fema... >> kieserman: so... >> alfonsi: ...in-in the summer of 2013. >> kieserman: so... you're right. this is dated august 19, 2013. and, you know, i've seen this. >> alfonsi: the document, sent to fema, was an appeal from another family who felt badly cheated by their insurance company.

in it they provide proof that the engineer who inspected their home, working for the firm u.s. forensic, was not licensed to work in new york. >> kieserman: this upset me very much. because this piece of information, had it been elevated in the agency, would have been very helpful in helping us help people earlier. >> alfonsi: why wasn't it elevated in the agency? i mean, this to me is the type of thing you run to the boss with. >> kieserman: this would be the type of thing that i would run to the boss with. and i need to find out why that didn't happen. >> alfonsi: but as far as you know, no one at fema ever said to the insurance companies, ever said to the engineering companies, "keep the claims down"? >> kieserman: as far as i know no one at fema has ever done that. >> alfonsi: but lawyers paid for by fema have gone after sandy survivors in court, accusing them of fraud. bob kaible, who took the photo of his altered engineering report, was accused in court of stealing the report done on his

own home, which he denies. we have homeowners who went through the appeals process. and the attorneys who are being paid for by fema called them thieves, said they were trying to conduct fraud. those are your dogs at the end of the leash. do you take any responsibility for that? >> kieserman: yes, i take responsibility for the fact that when fema funds activities, the people who are getting paid by those funds need to behave in a professional, ethical manner. >> alfonsi: two-and-a-half years after sandy, neighborhoods still bare the scars of the storm, but settlement talks are now underway. a week ago, fema's brad kieserman and a team of attorneys flew to texas to meet with steve mostyn to begin negotiations to settle more than 2,000 sandy claims. these people are truck drivers nurses, firefighters. they said they fought as much as they could. and they feel like fema just gutted them. they just gutted them.

>> kieserman: the fact that that's the experience they had with their insurance companies their engineers, their adjusters in a fema-funded program, that's unacceptable. >> alfonsi: so are you going to make it right? >> kieserman: i am. as you know, i'm doing everything i can in the midst of negotiations to try to make that right. let's face it, i don't have unlimited authority. i can't wave a magic wand and make all of this right for everyone. >> alfonsi: making it right for every victim of the fraud in the aftermath of hurricane sandy is the goal of oversight hearings that senators gillibrand and schumer of new york and menendez and booker of new jersey plan to call for tomorrow. >> cbs money watch update sponsored by: >> glor: good evening.

iran says it would allow google and other internet companies currently banned if they respected cultural rules. samsung launched its newest smartphones, the galaxy s6 and the s6 edge. and a massachusetts couple has delivered boxes of snow to 160 customers in 23 states. i'm jeff glor, cbs news.

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>> cooper: lumber liquidators is the largest and fastest-growing retailer of hardwood flooring in north america, with over 360 stores in 46 states and revenues of more than a billion dollars a year. but hardwood isn't the only product they sell. more than 100 million square feet of the company's cheaper laminate flooring is installed in american homes every year. lumber liquidators is a u.s. company, but much of its

laminate flooring is made in china, and as we discovered during our investigation, may fail to meet health and safety standards because it contains high levels of formaldehyde, a known cancer-causing chemical. lumber liquidators insists its chinese-made laminate flooring is safe, but it doesn't appear that way based on what we learned from our own reporting and from the work of people like denny larson. you want the company to remove all the flooring? >> larson: every single board. at their cost and replace it with clean flooring. >> cooper: how much is that gonna cost? >> larson: you know what? i don't care. because they're guilty of selling people product that could make them sick. >> cooper: these worried california homeowners, who didn't want to be identified aren't waiting for lumber liquidators. they are ripping up their floors now. but many can't afford to replace the flooring on their own. >> larson: they don't know what to do. they have flooring that they think is making them sick. >> cooper: denny larson, who is

executive director of a nonprofit group called global community monitor, teamed up with richard drury, a prominent environmental attorney, to test lumber liquidators chinese-made laminate flooring. do you have any idea how much of this wood is in people's homes right now? >> drury: we believe there are probably tens of thousands of households in california that have installed lumber liquidators chinese laminates that may exceed formaldehyde standards. >> cooper: nationwide? >> drury: nationwide, it's probably hundreds of thousands. >> cooper: drury and larson bought more than 150 boxes of laminate flooring at stores around california and sent them to three certified labs for a series of tests. the results? while laminate flooring from home depot and lowe's had acceptable levels of formaldehyde, as did lumber liquidators' american-made laminates, every single sample of chinese-made laminate flooring from lumber liquidators failed to meet california formaldehyde emissions standards, many by a large margin. >> drury: the average level in

lumber liquidators products that we found was over six to seven times above the state standard for formaldehyde. and we found some that were close to 20 times above the level that's allowed to be sold. >> cooper: that sounds like a huge amount. >> drury: it's a startling amount. it was so high, in fact, that one of our test labs thought their machine was broken. >> cooper: the lab itself thought... >> larson: it hit the upper limit on the radar gun. and they thought it was broken. >> philip landrigan: it's not a safe level, it's a level that the u.s. e.p.a. calls polluted indoor conditions. >> cooper: would you want that in your home? >> landrigan: no. >> cooper: dr. philip landrigan of new york's mt. sinai hospital specializes in environmental pediatrics and exposure to toxic chemicals. he's talking about the results of another kind of test drury and larson conducted measuring the concentration of formaldehyde emissions coming off the laminates into the air of a typical home. >> landrigan: i would say long- term exposure at that level would be risky because it would increase the risk for chronic respiratory irritation, change

in a person's lung function, increased risk of asthma. it's not going to produce symptoms in everyone, but children will be the people most likely to show symptoms at that sort of level. >> cooper: children are featured prominently in lumber liquidators ads, and the company likes to promote the donations of flooring they make to habitat for humanity, ronald mcdonald house charities, schools, and community centers. >> trust the people over two millions families trust... the flooring experts at lumber liquidators. >> cooper: and on their website, lumber liquidators promises that all of their flooring "meets or exceeds rigorous emissions standards". and they say "we not only comply with laws, we exceed them." is that true? >> drury: that is not a true statement. >> cooper: is it legal to sell these boxes of wood in california? >> drury: no, it is not. it is illegal to sell these boxes of wood in california.

we hope that they will not sell these products anywhere in the nation, because they are above the health-based standards that the state law has set. >> cooper: drury and larson, who are backed by short sellers-- a group of wall street investors who are betting the company is overvalued-- have sued lumber liquidators, accusing them of violating california's toxic warning statute. drury has also launched a class- action lawsuit against the company. it is legal for flooring to contain formaldehyde. the chemical is present in some of the cheap glues used in factories like this one in china. this footage was recorded by investigators hired by "60 minutes." formaldehyde is in the glues used to bind wood particles together to make the core boards in laminate flooring. the laminated top, which covers the core board, keeps most of the formaldehyde emissions trapped inside. but formaldehyde does leak into the air. how much is inhaled by homeowners depends on how much formaldehyde is in the glue and how much ventilation is in the home. >> larson: you're in a chamber so you're living with it. you're sleeping in there. and you're constantly exposed. that's the threat. the constant exposure to a

potent carcinogen over a long period of time. >> cooper: because formaldehyde can cause myeloid leukemia and nasopharengeal cancer at high levels and respiratory issues as well as eye, nose, and throat irritation at even low levels, california has strict standards for how much of the chemical the core boards in laminate flooring can emit. every box of laminate flooring lumber liquidators sells carries this label, stating its carb phase two compliant. carb is an acronym for the california air resources board which sets strict standards for formaldehyde emissions in wood flooring. congress adopted california's limits when it passed the formaldehyde standards act in 2010. that law is scheduled to take effect nationwide this year. drury and larson only had wood tested that was being sold in california. but we wondered if the chinese- made laminate flooring that lumber liquidators is selling nationwide also has high levels of formaldehyde. so we went to stores in virginia...

florida... texas... illinois... and new york... and bought 31 boxes of it. we sent the samples for testing at two certified labs. it turns out of the 31 samples of chinese-made laminate flooring, only one was compliant with formaldehyde emissions standards. some were more than 13 times over the california limit. both labs told us they had never seen formaldehyde levels that high. but when we took those test results to lumber liquidators' founder and chairman tom sullivan, he refused to accept the methodology as valid and points out the company is not required by law to test their finished products like we did. >> sullivan: it's not a real- world test of the laminate; it's not the way it's used. >> cooper: you say you don't believe in this test, but what you believe doesn't really matter-- it's what carb believes. and they believe in this test. >> sullivan: we will do whatever the regulations are. >> cooper: i just don't understand how a group can do tests on your chinese-made laminates and every single one

of those failed to meet the emissions standards. >> sullivan: people have different reasons for this test. this is a group of lawyers who are suing us selling short on our stock. >> cooper: but the short sellers are not conducting this test it's these certified labs. >> sullivan: but it started with short sellers. >> cooper: one of the first people to raise questions about lumber liquidators back in 2013 was whitney tilson, a wall street hedge fund manager. he has shorted the company's stock but is not involved in any lawsuits against it. >> tilson: in 16 years of professional money management, i've seen hundreds of companies do all sorts of bad things to get their stock prices up. but this has got to be the worst. >> cooper: whitney tilson studies the workings of companies he's interested in investing in and he noticed the profit margins at lumber liquidators seemed unusually high compared to its competitors. >> tilson: when you see a commodity business suddenly double its profit margins, that raises red flags. >> cooper: because it's hard to have your profit margin double in two years? >> tilson: exactly. it's almost unprecedented for a company. >> cooper: based on those

profits, lumber liquidators' stock price had gone from $13 a share in 2011 to $119 in 2013. tilson suspected the company might be breaking the law. he learned they were under federal investigation for allegedly buying timber illegally logged in russia. u.s. agents had raided lumber liquidators' headquarters in september 2013. the company denies buying illegally logged wood but announced just this week the department of justice may file criminal charges against them. six months after he bet millions the stock would go down, whitney tilson got tipped off by someone familiar with lumber liquidators' operations in china, who said he was missing the bigger story. >> tilson: the much bigger story, he said, is that lumber liquidators was almost certainly purchasing formaldehyde-tainted laminate flooring in china. >> cooper: why would lumber liquidators purchase wood that's tainted with formaldehyde? >> tilson: the answer is greed. plain and simple.

it's cheaper and net it reduces the cost by about ten percent. >> cooper: which in a business with these kinds of profit margins, ten percent means it's a lot of money? >> tilson: it's enormous. >> sullivan: our goal is to sell a good product at a good price. and we don't get the price by skimping on anything. we get the price by low overhead, huge volume and being very efficient at what we do. and we're never gonna sell something unsafe. >> cooper: do you trust your mills in china? >> sullivan: we do. we have inspectors that double- check them. the mills are licensed by california... the chinese mills we deal with in the laminates are licensed by california. >> cooper: when you say it's licensed by california, what that really means is california says this mill is capable of making carb two compliant product. california is not saying every piece... every product coming out of this mill is carb two compliant. >> sullivan: but our specs are to make it to california standards. >> cooper: but for months, we had been hearing from former lumber liquidators employees suppliers, and industry competitors that their chinese made laminates are not being

made to california standards. so we sent our investigators undercover to the city of changzhou, the laminate flooring capital of the world. posing as buyers, and using hidden cameras, the investigators visited three different mills that manufacture laminates for lumber liquidators. employees at the mills openly admitted that they use core boards with higher levels of formaldehyde to make lumber liquidators laminates, saving the company ten to 15% on the price. at all three mills they also admitted falsely labeling the company's laminate flooring as carb two, meaning it meets california formaldehyde emissions standards, and the new u.s. federal law. at this factory, the general manager told investigators lumber liquidators is one of their biggest customers. >> for lumber liquidators? yeah? >> yeah. >> how long have you been selling this? >> from last year. >> is this carb two? >> cooper: carb 2 means it's compliant with california law. but listen to what the general

manager told us. >> cooper: and that's the same thing the undercover team was told at all three mills they visited. >> cooper: remember, lumber liquidators founder and chairman tom sullivan says that he trusts the chinese mills his company uses. employees at all three mills told us the laminates they make are not carb two compliant. i want you to look at this. we shared some of our hidden camera footage with him. >> sullivan: i don't know the whole situation here. i will guarantee we'll be in that mill tomorrow and test it. and that is not anything we can condone in any way, to save a cent.

>> cooper: this concerns you? >> sullivan: yeah, yeah, of course. >> cooper: is this acceptable to you? >> sullivan: if it's true, no. >> cooper: all three mills told us they falsely label your products as carb two compliant-- that's cheating. >> sullivan: that would be if that's true. >> cooper: nobody's ever reported this to you? >> sullivan: again, we will investigate it. if there is anything going on, we will stop it immediately. i don't know if it's true or not. i don't know what the whole story is, but we will investigate it immediately. >> cooper: it certainly calls into question not just these mills, but it calls into question your oversight of these mills. >> sullivan: it could, yes. >> welcome to the cbs sports update brought to you by prevnar13. i'm greg gumbel with college basketball scores. frank kaminsky scored 31 points as wisconsin clinched a share of the big 10 title.

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don't let non-24 get in the way of your pursuit of happiness. >> rose: the hottest ticket on broadway right now is a comedy called "fish in the dark," written by and starring larry david. he's famous for playing a crusty curmudgeon on the television show "curb your enthusiasm," and for being the co-creator of "seinfeld," where a lot of the jokes came from real life larry david experiences. now, he's playing another character that walks and talks like larry david. as you'll see, with actors and

comedians, you never quite know where the act stops and the real person begins. david's friends, for instance, say he's a sweetheart. he says that's just an act, the nice guy act. who is he? that's what we wanted to find out. this is what everybody that is watching this wants to know. >> larry david: yeah. >> rose: who is larry david? >> david: oh, this guy. he's too much. >> rose: who is larry david? >> david: you are too much, mr. rose. >> rose: why? >> david: huh? >> rose: why? >> david: you're probing. what is the probe? >> rose: because we want to know who you are, i mean... >> david: who the hell knows? i don't know. >> rose: but you do know. >> david: like, what... whatever you're seeing, that's who i am! >> rose: really? >> david: yeah. >> rose: well, it's not true. you told me you created a character. it's not you. it's who you might want to be but are not. who are you? >> david: i'm a jerk, that's who i am. i'm like... >> rose: you're not! that's an act! >> david: i'm like everybody else. >> rose: no, that's an act. >> david: no, it isn't. >> rose: it really isn't? >> david: no. >> rose: how are you a jerk? >> david: oh, look, let's stop talking about me. i... that's why i didn't want to do this interview in the first place. i had to be talked into "60 minutes."

you think i wanted to do this? i didn't want to do it, because i knew you'd be asking questions like this! >> rose: then why'd you do it? >> david: they... they talked me into it, just like they talked me into the play! >> rose: oh, so you're a guy that you can be talked into things. >> david: yes, hence the jerk. >> rose: you have no backbone. you have no capacity to say no. >> david: no! >> rose: but the guy that you create would be able to say no. >> david: there you go. >> rose: and there's your biggest hang-up. >> david: yep. >> rose: you can't say no, but you can create a character that can say no. >> david: yeah. >> rose: you're not a jerk, but can create a character that's a jerk, but you don't have the courage to be a jerk. >> david: that's perfect. that's good. that's good. i like that. how much you charge? that's better than any therapy i ever got. >> rose: whoever he is, larry david attracts hardcore fans who'll wait for hours in bone- cracking cold for a stage-door glimpse of their hero. >> david: look at you. you're all prepared, huh? good-bye. >> rose: the play begins a three

month run this coming thursday. advance ticket sales set a $15 million record, with the best seats priced at $425 each. so here we are backstage... david is a very fit 67 years old and, being the star of the show... >> david: my own pants, my own jacket, my own shirt. >> rose: ...he insisted on bringing his own clothes, for comfort's sake. david: it takes me a while to acclimate to new clothing. i don't know about you. mom, are you crazy? >> rose: "fish in the dark" is a dark comedy about family dysfunction in typical larry david style. after his father's death, norman drexel, david's character, fights with his mother, his brother, his wife, and the housekeeper over just about everything. >> david: well, it's not about me. but the character is very similar to me. okay, it's me, yeah. that was a wonderful, wonderful eulogy. >> rose: sometimes, his characters are so similar to the

man it's easy to get confused. >> david: larry, larry? that is you! hey! >> rose: on the hbo show "curb your enthusiasm," his character was actually named larry david. he was politically incorrect, a bit of a jerk, and an equal opportunity offender. >> david: let me ask you this question. have you noticed if she has any proclivity for chopsticks? >> jerry seinfeld: if that's not that... what is that? >> rose: david and jerry seinfeld created one of the most successful sitcoms ever. and by his own admission, the character closest to david's heart was the wily weasel, george costanza. >> george costanza: i'm going to slip him a mickey! >> anna shapiro: it's not about where he can go to get the thing... >> rose: we asked the play's director, anna shapiro, about the many faces of larry david. here's a guy who says he doesn't consider himself an actor, doesn't want to be an actor, has created two characters that he says are him. and then is going to play a character who he says is him.

>> shapiro: he's a liar. he's just lying. all those things, none of those things are true. he is an actor. they aren't him. and he's actually a pretty good actor, and he's clearly interested in acting... >> david: you're talking normal again. >> shapiro: ...because you don't do a play if you're not interested in acting. it's a very, very weird way... it's kind of a long way around to get a laugh. so i don't think it's true. i think he's acting his head off. >> larry! you belong with us. >> rose: and acting is a very different animal from improvisation, making it up as you go along, which was the essence of his tv show "curb your enthusiasm." >> was that your dad's doctor? >> rose: here, he's got to stick to the script, and remember it. is the acting, does it worry you? did you have trepidation of not being able to do it? >> david: is that one of the great understatements of the century? yeah. >> rose: of what? forget your lines? not know how to move? >> david: all of it.

yes, everything. oh, boy. they're right on it. >> rose: it's a million miles from broadway to brooklyn and the apartment building where he grew up. he hadn't set foot in the place in half a century. >> david: this was my apartment. this is where i grew up. and here, this is where my aunt and uncle and cousins grew up. >> rose: the current residents the galinskis, invited us in. >> david: look at the size of our kitchen. >> rose: this is the point in most profiles where the subject is usually flooded with warm nostalgic memories. well, curb your enthusiasm. emotions? >> david: not much. nothing. >> rose: you've moved on. a place where your loving and wonderful mother raised you. it's where she made you, along with your father. >> david: yeah, i feel nothing yeah. >> rose: you know, gave you the confidence to go out and be what you became? >> david: oh, yeah. oh sure. yes. >> rose: don't you feel that? >> david: nope. nope. >> rose: it doesn't touch you? >> david: nope. completely devoid... >> rose: what kind of heart do

you have? >> david: i'm completely devoid of any feelings whatsoever at this moment. >> rose: the david apartment was a lot like seinfeld's. larry remembers a lot of relatives and friends constantly wandering in and out... >> all right! >> rose: ...a lot of yelling and no privacy. >> david: in the yearbook... >> rose: we moved on to shell bank junior high for the story of his school days. >> david: in junior high school and high school, i did not participate in anything. >> rose: you didn't... >> david: i didn't even know things were going on. by the way... >> rose: yes, you did. >> david: ...i didn't even know... i swear to you, i didn't even know there was a prom okay? >> rose: you didn't go to the prom? >> david: not only did i not go, i didn't even know about it! yeah, this is it. >> rose: this is the very spot where he made his only previous stage appearance-- at age 13, in the school play "charlie's aunt," wearing a dress. this is your class. just look at this and tell me if you can find yourself. >> david: oh, there? >> rose: oh, oh, oh, oh. you were a good-looking kid. >> david: cute, yes.

cute kid. >> rose: what would you have written for your caption at that time? >> david: lost at sea, yeah. >> rose: did you feel lost at sea? >> david: yeah, the prom story is true-- i didn't know there was a prom, so, you know... >> rose: that says a lot to me. >> david: ...that says a lot. >> rose: didn't know. >> david: didn't know. >> rose: here's what they should have written about you. >> david: "out of it," yeah. >> rose: no. "didn't go, didn't know." >> david: ( laughs ) that's it. perfect, yeah. i wish i came up with that answer, yeah. >> rose: but he does concede that growing up in brooklyn gave him all sorts of material for later use. some of it, very close to the bone. what did your mother want you to be? >> david: a mailman. >> rose: a mailman? >> david: yes. she wanted me to work in the post office. >> rose: because it was safe? >> david: safe, yes. secure paychecks. >> rose: pension. >> david: yeah. that was her dream, by the way. you know, that wasn't just... that was a dream. it wasn't only because she said that; that's how i felt about it. i... >> rose: you had no reason to believe that you were going to be as successful as you wanted to be.

>> david: zero, zero belief in myself. and it's changed somewhat, but there's still a lot of that in me. >> rose: getting out of the house, going to the university of maryland, lightened his mood. people actually enjoyed his emerging sense of humor. after college, he became friends with fellow funnyman richard lewis, and david started doing standup. but it was not his finest hour. >> david: you know, when you do standup, there are certain requirements that you have to do, like you have to go on stage, and when you get introduced, you have to say "hey, how ya doin'? how are ya?" i couldn't do it. >> rose: it was false for you. >> david: it was false, i couldn't do it. >> rose: it is even said that sometimes you would take a look at the audience and not go on. >> david: yeah, i did that once. i got up on stage and i kind of looked them over and i went, "nah, i don't think so." and i left. >> rose: he survived along the way, as young entertainers do, with odd jobs. >> david: paralegal... >> rose: chauffeur... >> david: ...private chauffeur

taxi driver... >> rose: taxi driver. >> david: ...driver and... >> rose: bra salesman. >> david: bra salesman, yeah. >> mr. farkus: so, basically george, the job here is quite simple-- selling bras. >> costanza: well, that interests me very much, mr. farkus. very much indeed, sir. >> rose: and when "seinfeld" came along, who could tell the uplifting story of david's brief bra career better than his favorite jerk, george costanza. >> costanza: from the first time i laid eyes on a brassiere, i was enthralled. i knew i wanted to be around brassieres. >> farkus: that's an incredible story. >> rose: fortunately, larry david chose television over bras. it brought him fame and many millions of dollars, almost everything. did it change you? >> david: i mean, it gave me money. >> rose: yeah, of course it did. lots of money. >> david: but... but...

>> rose: but confidence, a sense that... >> david: it gave me something. >> rose: yeah! >> david: it gave me something that i didn't have, but not in the way that... that people think, that, "oh, man, i just... like a total transformation." >> rose: but then you tell me... >> david: it wasn't that at all. i still, you know... to this day, i still couldn't walk up to a woman at a bar and say hello you know, so i don't have that. but i feel... >> rose: yes, you do. >> david: no, i do not. >> rose: yes, you do. >> david: oh, no! >> rose: you know why? >> david: huh? don't. i don't. charlie, don't argue with me on this one, baby. ( laughter ) oh, hey. hey, doc. >> rose: and so, larry david, or norman drexel or whoever he is prepares for opening night. and whether he's a jerk or not he's figured out one thing... >> what are you doing, giving me a tip? >> david: yeah. >> rose: ...jerks make for great comedy. >> david: i thought it was customary. >> i can assure you it is not customary. >> rose: his play starts with a man on his deathbed; we end on a similar light note. so, on your tombstone, first

line is going to be "writer"? >> david: oh, god. oh, oh. i don't know. "writer," really? is that what people put on tombstones, their occupation? >> rose: no, what they love. >> david: oh, what they love. what they love? i like to watch tv, like... >> rose: "here lies larry david." >> david: yeah. >> rose: "he liked to watch tv." or "here lies larry david." >> david: yeah. >> rose: "he liked to make people laugh." >> david: oh, charlie. >> charlie rose talks about interviewing someone who doesn't want to talk. >> you know what, you're ruining my day off. that's what you're doing. >> go to 60minutesovertime.com sponsored by pfizer. eing. better things than the pain stiffness, and joint damage of moderate

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>> pelley: now an update on a story we called "the swiss leaks." bill whitaker reported on how a computer security specialist employed by banking giant hsbc's swiss subsidiary stole a huge cache of data and turned over those secret files to french authorities. they revealed a pattern of the bank aiding tax evaders. >> whitaker: since 2010, billions of dollars have been recovered worldwide. the hunt for tax cheats is

ongoing. >> pelley: after our story aired last month, swiss authorities raided hsbc's geneva offices and the bank's british c.e.o. has publicly apologized for his company's "terrible list of failures." i'm scott pelley. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." tomorrow, be sure to watch cbs this morning and the cbs evening news.

captioning funded by cbs and ford captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org elizabeth: so jason comes home and tells us that he is joining the debate team at school. we're thrilled. what better use of his naturally argumentative nature, right? mmm. then... (laughs) then he leaves the room and henry turns to me and says “do we really want him getting better at it?” (laughs) i'm sorry, i'm talking too much about my kids. oh, no, because you can't talk about work, it's understood. oh, i can-- everybody is. ah, you're going before the house appropriations committee this week, huh? to defend my budget. isabelle: oh, squaring off with chairman everard burke. mmm, affectionately known on the hill as burke the ripper. every single one of our outreach programs is under fire. it's gonna take some fancy footwork.